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27-03-2012, 08:12 AM | Message : #101
Hors ligne Healthy 
w00t, still no blue answer? Big Grin

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27-03-2012, 08:18 AM | Message : #102
En ligne roennel 
(27-03-2012 08:12 AM)Healthy a écrit :  w00t, still no blue answer? Big Grin

(26-03-2012 03:11 PM)Healin4ev3r a écrit :  according to HATE ( he replied me ), right now there are many theory about this that they can't say anything officially, but no "silent nerf" or similar was made. We'll have to wait more Sleepy Lets fill the thread with testing vids so the devs can have a detailed thread with eveidences when they're ready to look into this problem Smile

Shy

27-03-2012, 08:38 AM | Message : #103
Hors ligne TaxManD 
Well, to be fair, they never stated the damage in the config should be exactly like how it is in game, Maybe we were too hasty when we considered what we've found in the game files should reflect exactly in the game :>. I don't think this is a problem or bug, it's just the way they design it, I'm sure they have special modifiers that we're not supposed to find out, or shall we? Tongue

(Ce message a été modifié le : 27-03-2012 08:40 AM par TaxManD.)
27-03-2012, 08:47 AM | Message : #104
En ligne roennel 
(27-03-2012 08:38 AM)TaxManD a écrit :  Well, to be fair, they never stated the damage in the config should be exactly like how it is in game, Maybe we were too hasty when we considered what we've found in the game files should reflect exactly in the game :>. I don't think this is a problem or bug, it's just the way they design it, I'm sure they have special modifiers that we're not supposed to find out, or shall we? Tongue

They already stated that they kinda don't like it when we go all crazy on stats (-only), they rather would have us test the weapons for feel, and they are kinda right...but i hate providing false information with my tool, which i'm sure i already do in some cases as there are just so much mysteries around certain things.

It would still be cool of them to provide some more infoHeart

27-03-2012, 12:58 PM | Message : #105
Hors ligne Wixx 
right the feel factor eh?

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28-03-2012, 01:24 AM | Message : #106
Hors ligne j4rh34d 
(27-03-2012 12:58 PM)Wixx a écrit :  right the feel factor eh?

Well it feels pretty sucky when your gun isn't doing the damage it's supposed too, probably explains why they removed actual stats from the store and replacecd it with meaningless statements eg. medium

I'm more concerned that +3 weapons seem to do almost identical damage to non-+3 weapons, and it's all very well HATE saying there is no need for tin hats, but the results in this thread form testing seem to imply differently Undecided

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28-03-2012, 02:03 AM | Message : #107
Hors ligne Ragedino 
so... theyre just gonna get rid of +3 overall with no refunds? geez
28-03-2012, 04:56 AM | Message : #108
Hors ligne Healin4ev3r 
(27-03-2012 08:38 AM)TaxManD a écrit :  Well, to be fair, they never stated the damage in the config should be exactly like how it is in game, Maybe we were too hasty when we considered what we've found in the game files should reflect exactly in the game :>. I don't think this is a problem or bug, it's just the way they design it, I'm sure they have special modifiers that we're not supposed to find out, or shall we? Tongue

even if the system was designed that way ( hope it wasn't ), according to St0mpy's test result, barrels that increase weapon's range actually have no effects, which is obviously NOT the way EAsy designed it.

[Image: xhUzq]

Honey Badger
PTFO
28-03-2012, 07:27 AM | Message : #109
Hors ligne coax. 
(26-03-2012 08:00 PM)wtfwtf a écrit :  
(26-03-2012 05:58 PM)St0mpy a écrit :  The triangulation function getVectorDistance uses absolute values but I cant seem to find the core math library yet .... anyone? EDIT: ah perhaps its in dice_py.dll, anyone got any dll decompilers set up? Big Grin

Why can't i send you PM's? Sad

Well anyway, i've tried before (although for different reasons) and couldn't really get something out of it, but then again i suck to much in those things.

maybe you can try, check out those.


btw, thanks for the vid Aranornth...it seems the collisionHardness hasn't got anything to do with this, as you're doing less damage than your supposed to do to with the M95...and it most probably has nothing to do with it as st0mpy's newest find's tell.

(28-03-2012 04:56 AM)Healin4ev3r a écrit :  
(27-03-2012 08:38 AM)TaxManD a écrit :  Well, to be fair, they never stated the damage in the config should be exactly like how it is in game, Maybe we were too hasty when we considered what we've found in the game files should reflect exactly in the game :>. I don't think this is a problem or bug, it's just the way they design it, I'm sure they have special modifiers that we're not supposed to find out, or shall we? Tongue

even if the system was designed that way ( hope it wasn't ), according to St0mpy's test result, barrels that increase weapon's range actually have no effects, which is obviously NOT the way EAsy designed it.

Maybe they made a mistake while implementing the range system?
IIRC this game uses the BF2 engine and BF2 had a different system for distance damage.
It's been some time since I last had a look at the weapon files of BF2 but I certainly haven't ever seen something like
"ObjectTemplate.longMinDamage 13"
in the weapon configs. BF2 didnt have all these ranges, just a minimum damage value.
They changed the system in BFP4F which may have unwanted sideeffects.
BF2 also used different materials for every weapon. BFP4F only has 3 ammo types for handheld weapons (normal,sniper, shotgun).

I only have very basic knowledge of how the Refractor2 Engine works, but I suspect it has something to do with the new range parameters which didnt exist in BF2.
I can't analyse the range system any further as I don't know how to do so, but maybe people like wtfwtf are able to do that.

However, I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with the different materials the projectiles use.
The material system has been working well since ages and all the important modifiers for bullet vs soldier are either 1 or 2.1 for headshots, so I don't think the problem can be found somewhere in the materialmanager etc.

BTW: Didn't BF2 also have a modifier for the angle the bullet hits the target? Maybe that one is still there and alters damage numbers.
28-03-2012, 05:28 PM | Message : #110
Hors ligne IgnisSolus 
So why haven't the devs responded yet?
29-03-2012, 11:15 AM | Message : #111
Hors ligne strangers123 
So...after some hours of intensive testing with wtfwtf, we have come to a shocking result:

This is the playlist with all the videos





Too Long; Didnt Watch:

After testing the PP19, PP2k, MP7 +3 and the M14 EBR +3, we have found that (using wtfwtf's alchemical.cc), there may be an extra range modifier hiding around there that defines damages at ranges close to the borders of current "known" ranges (initial range, medium range and long/infinite range). This might be why guns rarely hit their max statistical damage (thanks stOmpy). My numbers tell me that the closer you are to the start of your range (initial, medium and long/infinite) the higher the chance of you doing max damage and the lower the chance of you doing min damage there is. THIS IS UNCONFIRMED, ONLY BASED OFF WHAT I FELT DURING TESTING.

@Healin: We also pretty much confirmed why players seem to have 99 or 98 health upon respawn. Due to number rounding, the last number is nearly ALWAYS rounded down and some numbers during firing are also rounded down. Yet the wierd thing was that some (very rare) were rounded UP for the firer (I believe StOmpy already said this earlier).

Now for the worst: Damages that statistically...DONT EXIST! Stats of the M14 EBR with CQC ammo, precision barrel, M145 and Tactical Stock] At around 30 metres (moving backwards by a step after every shot) we hit the "barrier" between mid range and long range (damage wise). Blink and youll miss it, but my M14 EBR +3 with CQC ammo did 35 damage in a "sweet spot". Alchemical.cc stats say that number...dont fucking exist. (sorry for that swear word it really needs to fit...SCREW EA CENSORING!) This really made me think, and I did notice the same thing with other weapons from other classes and I noticed a same sweetspot at 15 metres where we went from statistical initial range to medium range. We also did statistically inexistent damages there.

Too Long; Didnt read: I smell fish! (must be leaking from the oven, but the one in real life smells good Tongue)

(Ce message a été modifié le : 01-04-2012 07:33 PM par strangers123.)
29-03-2012, 11:22 AM | Message : #112
Hors ligne ay.j.eng 
To me, it sounds like working as expected. Damage falloff based on distance is better than doing random damage based on min-max for the range.

EDIT: Btw, that playlist shows "This playlist is private" for me.

(Ce message a été modifié le : 29-03-2012 11:23 AM par ay.j.eng.)
29-03-2012, 11:32 AM | Message : #113
Hors ligne strangers123 
(29-03-2012 11:22 AM)ay.j.eng a écrit :  To me, it sounds like working as expected. Damage falloff based on distance is better than doing random damage based on min-max for the range.

EDIT: Btw, that playlist shows "This playlist is private" for me.

Sorry, i clicked the share as public, but forgot to click save :/

29-03-2012, 11:46 AM | Message : #114
Hors ligne strangers123 
(28-03-2012 01:24 AM)j4rh34d a écrit :  
(27-03-2012 12:58 PM)Wixx a écrit :  right the feel factor eh?

Well it feels pretty sucky when your gun isn't doing the damage it's supposed too, probably explains why they removed actual stats from the store and replacecd it with meaningless statements eg. medium

That makes sense when you think over it...

If what I said 3 posts above and what my results kinda found out, then there may be something hidden from us that they dont want us to find. Now looking at what wtfwtf said during our testing and what j4rh34d said about the new stats system, I do believe that this might have something with them not liking the tool (its 3rd party, nothing EAsy can do about it except kindly ask wtfwtf to close it) and that it reveals stats. My guns pre nerf did pretty much exactly what they should have been doing. Nothing wrong about that.

(Ce message a été modifié le : 29-03-2012 11:46 AM par strangers123.)
29-03-2012, 12:39 PM | Message : #115
En ligne roennel 
(29-03-2012 11:22 AM)ay.j.eng a écrit :  To me, it sounds like working as expected. Damage falloff based on distance is better than doing random damage based on min-max for the range.

EDIT: Btw, that playlist shows "This playlist is private" for me.

Well yeah, i agree with that, it would be better, but then again that doesn't explain where the inexistant numbers come from, other than that maybe only initialMinDamage & longMaxDamage are used right now, and the actual Drop Off is calculated.

Nonetheless, it's not working correctly i think...we sometimes did really different damages on the same ranges as well as hitting higher damages on longer range, which is the reverse of what it should do, in case it exists.

And it also seems weird that HATE has adjusted every single Damage Attribute on the PTE Pistol Nerf and actually wrote them down for the Public, which makes it seem even more of a bug.

And i said that about the tool more as kindof a joke, although you ofc never know and we're still missing an answer from a PM we've sent about 2 months ago. I can/would take it down on request but there's no real reason for that as long as their not providing something similar. Everyone would still have the GameFiles and just do their own interpretations, which on average would be worse i guess.

And if you look at the statistics you can see that it clearly get's used, so people want something like that.

(28-03-2012 01:24 AM)j4rh34d a écrit :  Well it feels pretty sucky when your gun isn't doing the damage it's supposed too, probably explains why they removed actual stats from the store and replacecd it with meaningless statements eg. medium

Idk, i still think they did that because it's easier for them to change, and that way they can also control the 'Buy-Flow' a little more. The Figures before weren't really helpful either, as far as i remember it was initialRangeMax Damage + mediumRangeMax Damage + longRangeMax Damage in case of Damage, and Range was only Medium Range Start.

(Ce message a été modifié le : 29-03-2012 12:46 PM par roennel.)
29-03-2012, 12:43 PM | Message : #116
Hors ligne Healin4ev3r 
OK, so not just barrels not working, but ammo attachments aren't working property, too ? Smells fishy, indeed Confused

[Image: xhUzq]

Honey Badger
PTFO
29-03-2012, 01:18 PM | Message : #117
Hors ligne Terminat0r. 
I found a test video here:




its not mine.

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(Ce message a été modifié le : 29-03-2012 01:18 PM par Terminat0r..)
29-03-2012, 01:19 PM | Message : #118
Hors ligne Healin4ev3r 
(29-03-2012 01:18 PM)Savior. a écrit :  I found a test video here:




its not mine.

and you found Solid's YT channel Wink He already posted that testing vid in this thread.

[Image: xhUzq]

Honey Badger
PTFO
29-03-2012, 01:23 PM | Message : #119
Hors ligne Terminat0r. 
(29-03-2012 01:19 PM)Healin4ev3r a écrit :  and you found Solid's YT channel Wink He already posted that testing vid in this thread.
oops. nvm.
why didn`t people watch this vid?
when I saw it, it only had 16 views.

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(Ce message a été modifié le : 29-03-2012 01:25 PM par Terminat0r..)
29-03-2012, 01:40 PM | Message : #120
Hors ligne CropedFrag 
suicide bug :/ not so good.



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