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24-03-2012, 01:24 PM | Post: #1
Offline Healin4ev3r 
Real mechanic is here, already implemented to comparison tool thanks to wtfwtf and Sforek Smile
I still want a confirmation from HATE Sad

(21-04-2012 05:52 PM)wtfwtf Wrote:  Alpha Charts for this new Damage Systems are up:
http://bfp4f.alchemical.ch/en/compare

Thanks to Healin4ev3r for the Info on the System.

It's not the final layout, but it's pretty hard to display.

(They are under the 'old' Damage Charts)

Or you can use tool dev version here : http://bfp4ftooldev.alchemical.cc to have more detailed damage charts:

AEK :
[Image: a.php?r[]=600&mg[]=20&i1...;type=shot]


Max damage chart:
[Image: damage.php?w=AR_AEK971_Default&t=max]


Min damage chart:
[Image: damage.php?w=AR_AEK971_Default&t=min]





(21-04-2012 03:35 PM)Healin4ev3r Wrote:  Current mechanic of damage indexes/range indexes works pretty close to the one in BF2. Here is how the BFP4F system works:

Current damage/range chart ( the wrong way for thinking about damage/range that most of us are thinking ) :

initialMaxDamage________________MediumMaxDamage________________longMaxDamage
0 meter ---------------------------------->mediumDistance-------------------------------->longDistance-------------------------------->infinitive
initialMinDamage________________MediumMinDamage________________longMinDamage


As for this way of thinking, Max/min damage will instantly drop everytime the target passes a range divider ( MediumDistance/LongDistance ).

The real mechanic ( based on a lot of tests and footage from this thread ):


initialMaxDamage________________MediumMaxDamage________________longMaxDamage
0 meter-------------------------------------->mediumDistance-------------------------------->longDistance
initialMinDamage________________MediumMinDamage________________longMinDamage



intialmin/maxDamage apply for targets at 0m ( or point blank ) only ( the reason that makes getting IntialMaxDamage impossible with any weapons ). Then max and min damage slowly drop from Intialmax/min to MediumMax/Min at MediumDistance. Then, one more time, damage slowly drop from MediumMax/Min to LongMax/Min at LongDistance. With any targets further than LongDistance, the max/min damage stay at LongMax/MinDamage.


Big thanks to anyone who made constructive posts in this topic, especially St0mpy, wtfwtf, Sforek, Cheezy-player, Septuaright, DeltaForce, Solid, Aranornth, strangers123 for all the charts and footage Smile







I've noticed this problem for pretty long, but didn't look deep into it until I saw the recent topic about pistols/shotguns tweak that contains a change to bodyshot's damage modifier. The thing I realized is that damage of primary weapons is always lower than the numbers in config files.

For example, my M16A2 does only 24 to 26 damage per hit at close range, even at point blank, instead of 27 to 29 like in its config file. Another example is that my M249+3, which should does 20-24 damage per long range hit, is actually doing just 18-19. Same for many other weapons I played with. No, it wasn't because the enemy use kevlar, otherwise 99% of the players must be wearing kevlar 24/7. Bullets on primary weapons lost about 20% of its damage.

This is suspicious. Is this a bug, or it's working as intended, and a damage modifier has been tricking us for all that time? Anyone is experiencing this also?



testing MP5 in close range :

Healin4ev3r Wrote:I did a small test with MP5, focus on close range damage mostly. Died few time due to trying to get too close to the enemy before start shooting :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbHX0mS4m...r_embedded

I was getting just 19-21 damages per shot instead of 21-23, even if the enemy was just 1 meter away.


Second vid , testing in semi-auto : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COoW7KfECiE



According to some lastest posts, +3 weapons' damage output is just the same as normal version of that weapon. What the... ? Look at post #69 of this thread also.


[Image: xhUzq]

Honey Badger
PTFO
(This post was last modified: 26-04-2012 11:10 AM by Healin4ev3r.)
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24-03-2012, 01:31 PM | Post: #2
Offline Br3msy 
I notcied the same thing, in the same thread.

The body multiplier for pistols was set to 0.77 so it will only do 77% of it's 'potential' damage meaning (let's say) if your bullet does 20-25 damage on paper it actually only does 77% of that, right?


Yep pretty strange stuff. I wonder how it actually works since everything we can do is pure speculation.
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24-03-2012, 01:33 PM | Post: #3
Offline redharvest 
(24-03-2012 01:24 PM)Healin4ev3r Wrote:  I've noticed this problem for pretty long, but didn't look deep into it until I saw the recent topic about pistols/shotguns tweak that contains a change to bodyshot's damage modifier. The thing I realized is that damage of primary weapons is always lower than the numbers in config files.

For example, my M16A2 does only 24 to 26 damage per hit at close range, even at point blank, instead of 27 to 29 like in its config file. Another example is that my M249+3, which should does 20-24 damage per long range hit, is actually doing just 18-19. Same for many other weapons I played with. No, it wasn't because the enemy use kevlar, otherwise 99% of the players must be wearing kevlar 24/7. Bullets on primary weapons lost about 20% of its damage.

This is suspicious. Is this a bug, or it's working as intended, and a damage modifier has been tricking us for all that time? Anyone is experiencing this also?

I'm quite damn sure there's different modifiers for each part of the body, learn to shoot brah.

[Image: EOopU3u.png]
(This post was last modified: 24-03-2012 01:33 PM by redharvest.)
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24-03-2012, 01:41 PM | Post: #4
Offline Br3msy 
(24-03-2012 01:33 PM)redharvest Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 01:24 PM)Healin4ev3r Wrote:  I've noticed this problem for pretty long, but didn't look deep into it until I saw the recent topic about pistols/shotguns tweak that contains a change to bodyshot's damage modifier. The thing I realized is that damage of primary weapons is always lower than the numbers in config files.

For example, my M16A2 does only 24 to 26 damage per hit at close range, even at point blank, instead of 27 to 29 like in its config file. Another example is that my M249+3, which should does 20-24 damage per long range hit, is actually doing just 18-19. Same for many other weapons I played with. No, it wasn't because the enemy use kevlar, otherwise 99% of the players must be wearing kevlar 24/7. Bullets on primary weapons lost about 20% of its damage.

This is suspicious. Is this a bug, or it's working as intended, and a damage modifier has been tricking us for all that time? Anyone is experiencing this also?

I'm quite damn sure there's different modifiers for each part of the body, learn to shoot brah.
Are you sure? I can't help but remmember only seeing two modifiers, bodyshot and headshot, no footshots or anything else Huh
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24-03-2012, 01:46 PM | Post: #5
Offline AJoao611
(24-03-2012 01:33 PM)redharvest Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 01:24 PM)Healin4ev3r Wrote:  I've noticed this problem for pretty long, but didn't look deep into it until I saw the recent topic about pistols/shotguns tweak that contains a change to bodyshot's damage modifier. The thing I realized is that damage of primary weapons is always lower than the numbers in config files.

For example, my M16A2 does only 24 to 26 damage per hit at close range, even at point blank, instead of 27 to 29 like in its config file. Another example is that my M249+3, which should does 20-24 damage per long range hit, is actually doing just 18-19. Same for many other weapons I played with. No, it wasn't because the enemy use kevlar, otherwise 99% of the players must be wearing kevlar 24/7. Bullets on primary weapons lost about 20% of its damage.

This is suspicious. Is this a bug, or it's working as intended, and a damage modifier has been tricking us for all that time? Anyone is experiencing this also?

I'm quite damn sure there's different modifiers for each part of the body, learn to shoot brah.

Yesterday on PTE I asked Fixy (aka jjagged) why my REX was doing less dmg only to him, he said I was maybe hitting his arm, so I asked if there were different dmg multipliers than for bodyshot and headshot, but he said he was just kidding, so I doubt there are more than 2 dmg multipliers (bodyshot and HS)...
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24-03-2012, 01:48 PM | Post: #6
Offline Gam3King 
(24-03-2012 01:24 PM)Healin4ev3r Wrote:  my M249+3, which should does 20-24 damage per long range hit, is actually doing just 18-19.

My normal M249 saw does the same amount.

[Image: TurtleSwag.gif]

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24-03-2012, 01:57 PM | Post: #7
Offline Healin4ev3r 
(24-03-2012 01:48 PM)Gam3King Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 01:24 PM)Healin4ev3r Wrote:  my M249+3, which should does 20-24 damage per long range hit, is actually doing just 18-19.

My normal M249 saw does the same amount.

That makes the problem even more strange, isn't it?

One more example is MP5 doing just 19-21 damage at close range instead of 21-23. I never see the number "+23" pops up.

[Image: xhUzq]

Honey Badger
PTFO
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24-03-2012, 02:03 PM | Post: #8
Offline Merlini 
Head x2.1
Body x1.0

Damage Drop is very severe
(This post was last modified: 24-03-2012 02:03 PM by Merlini.)
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24-03-2012, 02:11 PM | Post: #9
Offline Healin4ev3r 
^ but as I said, bullets lose damage even in point blank. Drop?

[Image: xhUzq]

Honey Badger
PTFO
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24-03-2012, 02:22 PM | Post: #10
Offline roennel 
I just found the location of those modifiers, they're defined through the material manager in:
mods/Common_server.zip/Material/materialManagerSettings.con

but you need to compare those material id's with the ones of the projectiles and stuff...i may gonna code some small tool for that, otherwise it takes ages.

Update:

There is another modifier for actual hits, which is at 0.6, but i don't know which part if affects yet...

(This post was last modified: 24-03-2012 02:27 PM by roennel.)
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24-03-2012, 02:28 PM | Post: #11
Offline AJoao611
(24-03-2012 01:48 PM)Gam3King Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 01:24 PM)Healin4ev3r Wrote:  my M249+3, which should does 20-24 damage per long range hit, is actually doing just 18-19.

My normal M249 saw does the same amount.

So... +3 guns = normal guns? Afterall they ain't OP...

[Image: tumblr_liuzbqmmPk1qbvc38o1_250.png]
(This post was last modified: 24-03-2012 02:28 PM by AJoao611.)
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24-03-2012, 03:05 PM | Post: #12
Offline roennel 
Ok i guess i found out how the system works...

Lookup the Material ID in the Weapon Config file (ObjectTemplate.material) then search for MaterialManager.createCell YourChoosenMaterialID in materialManagerSettings.con.



For the lazy's Material ID List:
AR's/LMG's/SMG's: 38
SR's: 39
SG's: 41
New Pistols: 59



Then search for Entries with the EffectTemplate 0 e_bloodhit.

For AR's and some others it looks like this:

Code:
MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate 0 e_bloodhit_1
MaterialManager.setSoundTemplate 0 S_Impact_Flesh
MaterialManager.createCell 38 24
MaterialManager.damageMod 1
MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate 0 e_bloodhit_1
MaterialManager.setSoundTemplate 0 S_Impact_Flesh
MaterialManager.createCell 38 25
MaterialManager.damageMod 2.1

To find out which part those Modifiers actually modify you need to lookup the second number from MaterialManager.createCell in materialManagerDefines.con, there you'll find the corresponding Material.name

Here's a list of the SOLDIER Materials:

Code:
Material.active 24
Material.name "SOLDIER_BODY"
Material.type 4
Material.friction 1.1
Material.elasticity 0
Material.resistance 0.01
Code:
Material.active 25
Material.name "SOLDIER_HEAD"
Material.type 4
Material.friction 1.1
Material.elasticity 0
Material.resistance 0.01
Material.pythonEvent 8
Code:
Material.active 77
Material.name "SOLDIER_LIMBS"
Material.type 4
Material.friction 0.6
Material.elasticity 0
Material.resistance 0.01
Code:
Material.active 43
Material.name "SOLDIER_DEFAULT"
Material.type 4
Material.friction 1.1
Material.elasticity 0
Material.resistance 0.01



BTW, i've just checked all the weapons and they all have (besides the new Pistols) the same Modifiers:
Body: 1.0
Head: 2.1
Limbs: 1.0

(This post was last modified: 24-03-2012 03:19 PM by roennel.)
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24-03-2012, 03:11 PM | Post: #13
Offline AJoao611
So there's actually a modifier for the limbs... I tottaly didn't know that... thought it was just bodyshot and HS. Of how much is the limbs modifier?
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24-03-2012, 03:14 PM | Post: #14
Offline BoomStick. 
(24-03-2012 02:28 PM)AJoao611 Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 01:48 PM)Gam3King Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 01:24 PM)Healin4ev3r Wrote:  my M249+3, which should does 20-24 damage per long range hit, is actually doing just 18-19.

My normal M249 saw does the same amount.

So... +3 guns = normal guns? Afterall they ain't OP...

It just gets more and more confusing.

[Image: sig2.png]
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24-03-2012, 03:17 PM | Post: #15
Offline roennel 
(24-03-2012 03:11 PM)AJoao611 Wrote:  So there's actually a modifier for the limbs... I tottaly didn't know that... thought it was just bodyshot and HS. Of how much is the limbs modifier?

Didn't know that too, it seems they just implemented it for future updates.

I'm gonna write a little tool to double-check my findings, but it seems there are no different modifiers than we already know if you actually hit the soldier itself.

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24-03-2012, 03:23 PM | Post: #16
Offline shodhu 
im soo confused

[Image: shodu.jpg]
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24-03-2012, 03:43 PM | Post: #17
Offline Healin4ev3r 
Oh well, still no clue about the lost in damage. I hate waiting till next week for the devs to come to office. Can someone test this also? Shot your weapon in semi-auto, look for the damage number, then compare it with the numbers on the comparison toll?

[Image: xhUzq]

Honey Badger
PTFO
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24-03-2012, 03:56 PM | Post: #18
Offline TaxManD 
I knew there was something that mod the dmg, at first I thought it was because the guy had body armor, but everyone I hit shows the same result, which made me think something was not right. With the recent announcement on pistol nerf it's even clearer.
For the M16, in close range it's never 27-29, so definitely there must be a modifier.
Same thing for M14+3 with CQC ammo, you should be able to 2 hits anyone at close range body shot, but it always take 3 hits.
Maybe the modifier is not client-side?

(This post was last modified: 24-03-2012 03:57 PM by TaxManD.)
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24-03-2012, 04:06 PM | Post: #19
Offline ay.j.eng 
(24-03-2012 03:56 PM)TaxManD Wrote:  I knew there was something that mod the dmg, at first I thought it was because the guy had body armor, but everyone I hit shows the same result, which made me think something was not right. With the recent announcement on pistol nerf it's even clearer.
For the M16, in close range it's never 27-29, so definitely there must be a modifier.
Same thing for M14+3 with CQC ammo, you should be able to 2 hits anyone at close range body shot, but it always take 3 hits.
Maybe the modifier is not client-side?

No, it looks like the code is client side. See wtfwtf's post above.

And yeah, I always felt like there was more to it than just damage values in those weapon files. I still believe there's an additional mod for ROF and the ROF in the weapon config files doesn't tell the whole story (e.g. some weapons clearly feel slower while the ROF in the tool and the weapon file is same).

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24-03-2012, 04:44 PM | Post: #20
Offline Nick.Rush 
hmm.. seems like I'm not the only one noticed the less damage but thats since like a month ago or more, just thought I mislead myself of the powerloss of all my Weapons and the slowlyness of them.
It's really weird shooting a full mag with my MP5 at someone at close range and then I think whack him over the head instead with your MP5 kills him faster.

[Image: l446vw]

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(This post was last modified: 24-03-2012 04:45 PM by Nick.Rush.)
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