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27-11-2011, 10:38 PM | Post: #1
Offline Robert147 
Since Tier 3 has been released, the new training and its effects for jet weaponry confused me.

It has been remarked pretty often that especially the bomb reload of the F-35 seems to be bugged and takes a lot longer that it does in the MIGs. FIXED.

So I decided to time reload times of all weapons (depending on the training points spent on every weapon system) to reveal how high the effect of training points and the difference between the jets actually is:

[Image: reloadtimesnew.jpg]



So you will notice two interesting aspects:

1. Counter missiles have to be trained from 1/2 to 2/2 to get access to Tier 3, but reload time does not decrease at all.


FIXED:
2. No matter how much points you spent on JDAM Weapon System, the reload of the F-35 bombs takes 10 seconds longer than it does in the MIG-29.


Additional notes:


Note 1:
Ground Crew Support:
This is quite hard to test. I can only say it does not help as much as Combat Resilience did before it became bugged. Even on 3/3 training it takes 3 passes across the carrier to heal completely.

Note 2:
Advanced IFF System:
Numerical tests cannot be done either. All I can say is that it helps a lot when on 2/2, especially in the F-35. With this ability, it can finally identify vehicles when heading towards them. Does not work as as good as in the MIG, but still beneficial.

Note 3:
Remember:
The reload of an AA only takes about 6 seconds. Use your Counter missiles (X-button) reasonably, even on 2/2 it takes 4 times longer to reload than the reload of an AA turret.

Note 4:
Correctness:
All data was taken on different public servers, most tests were done twice. I am confident about the validity of these results.
Nevertheless, feel free trying to correct me. If your times differ from mine, post them here or contact me via PM, I will check them.

Note 5:
Currentness:
All data was updated on 2nd December, 2011. I will try to keep an eye on possible changes when further updates are released... but I will not promise to keep it current lifelong. Wink

Attached File(s)
.jpg  Reload Times new.jpg (Size: 47.49 KB / Downloads: 2)


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Table: Reload Times Of Jet Weapons (This post was last modified: 02-12-2011 09:08 PM by Robert147.)
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27-11-2011, 10:40 PM | Post: #2
Offline Robert147 
Reserved for... more stuff. Maybe.

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Table: Reload Times Of Jet Weapons (This post was last modified: 27-11-2011 10:40 PM by Robert147.)
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27-11-2011, 10:47 PM | Post: #3
Offline 7744 
Great chart and great work, dude!

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Also known as: [adicto]Heaven
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28-11-2011, 06:06 PM | Post: #4
Online DeltaForce 
Nice work.

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28-11-2011, 10:45 PM | Post: #5
Offline BryanMcFly 
um first of all LOL@7744 (100 shots 1kill)
second why is the russian aircraft btr than americans iu thought americans were all high techy an stuff
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28-11-2011, 11:46 PM | Post: #6
Offline Johnysnake 
(28-11-2011 10:45 PM)BryanMcFly Wrote:  ...
second why is the russian aircraft btr than americans iu thought americans were all high techy an stuff

Yeah, it´s a bit weird. The F-35 is a 5th gen fighter and the MIG-29 a 4th gen. I hope it´s just a bug. Although, i also could be this way to keep the vehicles balanced. For example, the Black Hawk is better then the Russian transport helicopter.


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29-11-2011, 09:24 AM | Post: #7
Offline St0mpy 
Note 1:

I put the GCS and CR to the test to answer exactly this question.

Turning the server over to unranked so I wouldnt be disturbed, I flew out, beat up the F35 a bit till it was somewhere between 100-250 health and then did a full speed full length same height pass on the carrier and wrote down the before and after values each time.

I flew 3x on each test to create an average value and then analysed them for consistency and effect. Without boring you with exact values GCS had more effect than CR, however both still work.
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29-11-2011, 01:52 PM | Post: #8
Offline Johnysnake 
(29-11-2011 09:24 AM)St0mpy Wrote:  Note 1:

I put the GCS and CR to the test to answer exactly this question.

Turning the server over to unranked so I wouldnt be disturbed, I flew out, beat up the F35 a bit till it was somewhere between 100-250 health and then did a full speed full length same height pass on the carrier and wrote down the before and after values each time.

I flew 3x on each test to create an average value and then analysed them for consistency and effect. Without boring you with exact values GCS had more effect than CR, however both still work.

I tried this aswell and even recorded it to look afterwards if the healing would increase with CR. But tbh i didn´t notice any difference with CR.


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29-11-2011, 02:20 PM | Post: #9
Offline St0mpy 
I calculated a difference and re ran each test 3 times, im not sure id just notice, its within about 15%
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29-11-2011, 03:26 PM | Post: #10
Offline Robert147 
Nice to hear you took some time to make a test St0mpy, but for now I have to agree to Jonnysnake:

Quote:I tried this aswell and even recorded it to look afterwards if the healing would increase with CR. But tbh i didn´t notice any difference with CR.

There has been a huge (!) increase of healing with combat resilience before the Tier 3 update, but now I do not recognize any difference at all, no matter if it is skilled or not.

I tried it out, with skill on 3/3 and without it, but did not time the changes... in my subjective feeling it did not change anything.

I also think it's very likely that the skill is bugged completely since medics claim their packs would have stopped to heal faster as well. I can hardly imagine it still works somehow but was reduced to such a minimal effect.

Another thing I realised is that the amount of healing you get when passing the carrier seems to differ in general... sometimes it feels as if flybys would not heal constantly. Maybe this also depends from the height and angle you come from?! Kind of strange.

Nevertheless I don't want to tear your results to shreds, perhaps you could write down the exact times you collected? Smile

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Table: Reload Times Of Jet Weapons
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29-11-2011, 07:50 PM | Post: #11
Offline St0mpy 
carrier flyby...thats why reran the tests 3x each, to check consistency of results for such a variable task, the data was all sufficiently banded and within acceptable tolerances, i flew out far enough to be at max speed and same level on pass, no cutting short

result data...pencilled in my pad here, no titles tho since i did it for my own curiosity to see which was the best to stack first while i leveled up soldiers to 25...if i thought i would have to prove them id have made a list...but if ppl disagree without their own data and go on a feeling then thats fine, i know where to put mine Smile

maybe iill rerun the test one day, but ive not learned how to video edit yet so itll just be me expanding on the above with a data plot
(This post was last modified: 29-11-2011 07:57 PM by St0mpy.)
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29-11-2011, 10:07 PM | Post: #12
Offline Robert147 
I could not resist to test it so here are my results:

I did these tests on empty servers (except one time when Johnysnake was on too) and only on RUS side with a MiG... assuming there are no differences in the effectivity of healing between the two bases.

I tried to do every pass with a speed about 910-930, flying horizontally in a low altitude from start to end.

These are the results I got:

without CR
169 - 377
148 - 368
146 - 365
231 - 439
235 - 443

with CR on 3/3
213 - 425
275 - 489
225 - 441
250 - 466
177 - 397

Without CR I get an average heal of 214 HP.
With CR on 3/3 I get an average heal of 215 HP.

Even if I took only 5 pretty similar passes cross the landing strip it is enough for me to detect a tendency - Combat Resilience is bugged and does not work on aircraft. At least it doesn't on MiGs and not for me.

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Table: Reload Times Of Jet Weapons (This post was last modified: 29-11-2011 10:08 PM by Robert147.)
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30-11-2011, 01:30 AM | Post: #13
Offline ShadeyTex2.1 
Have you guys tried out CGS and CR together?

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I got all types of ammo.
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30-11-2011, 12:21 PM | Post: #14
Offline St0mpy 
ok sorry guys, looks like things have changed since i first ran this - it was only a couple of weeks ago when T3 was released and we were levelling to 25 that i checked it.

However I will confirm now no CR works at all on any jet with any class....sorry for making u do more tests, ive just been on confirming this for hours now too. CR doesnt work on its own, nor does it work 3 + 3 with GCS.

GCS does still work as expected and at the same values as my previous test. I can only suspect CR was 'bugfixed' these past weeks (shame they didnt fix the medic) but still your Note1 is incorrect insomuch as CR was less than CGS when it did work, and even now 3/3 GCS is significantly more uptake than 0/3 or 1/3 GCS (35% on US side, more on RU).

Testing with the MIG is incredibly difficult compared to the F35, which is very stable and straight over the carrier however the RU base is in a dip so matching speed at 890 for the pass was challenging, but not impossible. The RU base repair is set at a higher multiplier too, meaning faster fix no matter what. Still the MIG results had a far wider band, almost meeting in some extreme values so I appreciate this is hard to see without extensive reruns.

My question now is does CR still work for engineers repairing land vehicles, but thats outside the scope of this thread.
(This post was last modified: 30-11-2011 06:16 PM by St0mpy.)
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30-11-2011, 04:32 PM | Post: #15
Offline Johnysnake 
I heard that CR is bugged atm. So maybe it will work again after tomorrow´s update.


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30-11-2011, 05:07 PM | Post: #16
Offline Robert147 
Quote:ok sorry guys, looks like things have changed since i first ran this - it was only a couple of weeks ago when T3 was released and we were levelling to 25 that i checked it.

Nice to hear that. That would have become a confusing mystery for me if it worked for you but not for me. Wink

But I still have to disagree on the fact GCS works as effective as CR did.
With GCS on 3/3 I get about 400-450 health restored when passing RU base. I do not have any data for CR from the past, but have a look at this gameplay by DrDred (around 5:37):






He only passes half of the base with similar speed and receives even more healing than I do with CGS.

But well, anyway, that does not really matter. CGS works fine (!) and should be essential for every pilot. If anyone is interested in doing tests to collect exact data for this please tell me and I'll add it... but I guess the issue is principally clear, no matter how the effect actually is.

Quote:The RU base repair is set at a higher multiplier too, meaning faster fix no matter what.

I am also quite curious about that. Does it actually heal faster or is it just because the landing strip for the MiGs is a lot longer than the carrier? Don't know about that.

Quote:I heard that CR is bugged atm. So maybe it will work again after tomorrow´s update.

I heard about the maintenance, but will it contain an update too? Do you know any details about that?

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Table: Reload Times Of Jet Weapons
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30-11-2011, 06:15 PM | Post: #17
Offline St0mpy 
(30-11-2011 05:07 PM)Robert147 Wrote:  
Quote:The RU base repair is set at a higher multiplier too, meaning faster fix no matter what.

I am also quite curious about that. Does it actually heal faster or is it just because the landing strip for the MiGs is a lot longer than the carrier? Don't know about that.


Ok ive crunched the results and the US vs RU isnt that much faster by ratio, the heal rate on 3/3 is ~34.3% and ~36.5% between the two but the basic heal rates are way different, the RU base gives 38% more healing by value with no GCS and only up 2% to 40% with 3/3...so unless the runway healzone is 38-40% longer on the RU i would say theres a multiplier at play.
(This post was last modified: 30-11-2011 06:28 PM by St0mpy.)
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01-12-2011, 02:50 PM | Post: #18
Offline Live85 
Nice post, thank you Robert. With today's update the mig has the same reload time as the F35, 17 seconds with the T3 skill maxed out. The same it had with T1/T2.
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01-12-2011, 04:30 PM | Post: #19
Offline Johnysnake 
(01-12-2011 02:50 PM)Live85 Wrote:  Nice post, thank you Robert. With today's update the mig has the same reload time as the F35, 17 seconds with the T3 skill maxed out. The same it had with T1/T2.

I haven´t checked it myself. But you mean 27 seconds, right?


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01-12-2011, 05:17 PM | Post: #20
Offline Live85 
(01-12-2011 04:30 PM)Johnysnake Wrote:  
(01-12-2011 02:50 PM)Live85 Wrote:  Nice post, thank you Robert. With today's update the mig has the same reload time as the F35, 17 seconds with the T3 skill maxed out. The same it had with T1/T2.

I haven´t checked it myself. But you mean 27 seconds, right?

27 seconds if the skill is 1/3; 22 seconds @ 2/3, 17 seconds @ 3/3. The reload with the maxed out skill is now 10 seconds slower than yesterday on the mig. I really thought that the bugged one was the F35, not the mig... to me it seems weird to spend all those training points to have the exact same reload time as it was before the tier 3. :|
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