[Discuss] The removal of "Legacy" attachments, the introduction of fairer play!

[[DR]Sturm]

(05-01-2012 04:20 PM)Silvanoshi Wrote:  Threads merged.

Thank's for the abundant amount of feedback folks. I know you guys want more of a response on this issue, right now VitalBullet's initial post is it. That may change going forward, but for the time being that's where we're at.

Silvanoshi

I don´t need any of your responses. I, like EVERYBODY else here does, want either the weapons for which I´ve paid for or a total refund of the money I´ve spent on this game. It´s not hard to understand right?
Take the EAsy route and just give us the weapons we´ve paid for.
We haven´t paid for stock+Legacy attachments. We´ve paid for non customizable weapons with specific stats, bullets per mag and mag count.
Just give us those back and that´s it. Nobody will ask ANYTHING anymore from you. We´ll leave you people alone and maybe even continue spending = supporting you.

[Raijukin]

some important things I think some people might have missed during the merge...


http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/104/fueasy2.jpg

(05-01-2012 12:41 AM)Raijukin Wrote:  Ive been reading the TOS and from what i see i dont see anywhere it saying they are allowed to take away content a person has already purchased...

the closest thing to content editing stuff i see is this

10. Use and Expiration of Battlefield Virtual Currency.

During the term of your license, you have the right to redeem Battlefield Virtual Currency for selected Battlefield Content. We do not guarantee that any particular item offered as part of the Battlefield Services will be available at all times or at any given time. We do not guarantee that we will continue to offer particular items for any particular length of time. We reserve the right to change and update our inventory of Battlefield Content without notice to you. If you have not used your Battlefield Virtual Currency for twenty four (24) months or more and your account has a Battlefield Virtual Currency balance, your Battlefield Virtual Currency shall expire and your account may be cancelled for non-use. Once you -- or we as set forth below -- have redeemed Battlefield Virtual Currency for Battlefield Content, that content is not returnable, exchangeable, or refundable for Battlefield Virtual Currency or for cash, or other goods or services.

to me that sounds like any other TOS where you are allowed to update content and change your inventory and of course you cant guarantee an item will always be available...but i dont see anywhere that it says you have the right to remove content that players have purchased... sounds more like you are allowed to no longer OFFER the content to be purchased...but to remove a product from a player that has already purchased it... i dont see it... I may be wrong... here is the link guys..

http://battlefield.play4free.com/user/dsa/en
I got the above statement from section 10

your thoughts?

(05-01-2012 04:22 AM)Meatstorm Wrote:  From the Battlefield Digital Services Agreement: (Section 16)

"NOTHING CONTAINED IN THIS AGREEMENT LIMITS EA’S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR FRAUDULENT MISREPRESENTATIONS, DEATH OR PERSONAL INJURY CAUSED BY EA’S NEGLIGENCE, OR ANY OTHER LIABILITY TO THE EXTENT SUCH LIABILITY CANNOT BE EXCLUDED OR LIMITED AS A MATTER OF APPLICABLE LAW."

They acknowledge that they cannot limit their own liability pertaining to FRAUDULENT MISREPRESENTATION. The words LASTS FOREVER on an item that is being sold with EXPRESSED and SPECIFIC capabilities is clearly a FRAUDULENT MISREPRESENTATION.

(21-12-2011 06:00 PM)thebarons Wrote:  EA MAY FIND IT NECESSARY TO UPDATE, OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS TO BALANCE GAME PLAY AND USAGE OF EA SERVICES. THESE UPDATES OR "RESETS" MAY CAUSE YOU SETBACKS WITHIN THE RELEVANT GAME WORLD AND MAY AFFECT CHARACTERS, GAMES, GROUPS OR OTHER ENTITLEMENTS UNDER YOUR CONTROL. EA RESERVES THE RIGHT TO MAKE THESE UPDATES AND IS NOT LIABLE TO YOU FOR THESE CHANGES.

right from the TOS

sorry buddy but TOS does not give you any right to break federal law by committing false advertisement and fraud by saying weapons last forever. they are misleading people to purchase items that are advertised with specified abilities and lasting forever and then taking those items away after purchase and replacing them with a product that does not match what is advertised and is of lesser value.

Under federal law, the seller can not violate the Federal Trade Commission laws and regulations governing consumer protection and misleading marketing of products or services.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus28-...rules-road

(05-01-2012 05:19 AM)E.Bailey Wrote:  To all those Canadians out there now that we have an answer i will post this as i already contacted a lawyer over Christmas (friend of mine) and he has advised me that we have several options regarding this (sorry to the rest of the world but this type of law is almost universal check your local laws).

None of these options are guaranteed to work out but as these weapons were advertised as "permanent" or "forever" we will have a very good case. There is very little case law around virtual property but what there is is all in our favour :-)

First piece of advice he says is to be patient, this could take months if not years and will take up some of your time and a little money if you are serious about it (cost of a small claims filing is usually $50 and we probably spent more on the weaps in the 1st place). But he also says it will cost EAsy much much more to fight 100000 small claims cases all around the world then it will be for each of us individually to file it and many of us will get default judgments when they don't show.

Second is to attempt to rectify through all other channels besides the courts first (judges dislike people jumping right to the courts). The only ones im aware of being with customer support and the BBB, document EVERYTHING, when you called/chatted/emailed, who it was you conversed with and what the outcome was. If you accept a resolution that is the final end of the process and what you get.

If that doesn't work to your satisfaction

1) If BF were purchased with a credit card, you can call your credit card company and file a services/product fraud complaint.
- Couple caveats with this option. The time since you made the purchase can greatly affect how this will turn out. If you bought the BF in Oct/Nov and the weapons at the same time you should be ok. 6 months previous to that it will be harder to argue.
- This now adds an additional company to the legal battle and can cause additional headaches for you but could also cause them for EAsy depending on how the CC company views this practice. The CC company may side with EAsy and deem it not fraud, at that point the charges will be restored to your CC.

2) Fraud and deceptive business practices (the courts)

Please note what Easy has done is not "bait and switch" it is actually classified as product/service or contract fraud depending on how it is viewed regarding virtual products(property) and the TOS (contract).

Fraud in this case is defined as advertising/selling a product/service then providing a substandard product/service than what was originally advertised. The hard part will be determining if what was provided is what we agreed to or not (TOS).

He reviewed the TOS and the section that the blues are pointing to DOES NOT state that they can remove/change/devalue currently owned virtual products when ever they like without compensation (he said if this is what EAsy's lawyers said they can do they need to be fired and disbarred). It does say they can change the inventory in their store and thats all unless their store inventory some how includes your characters inventory to which he can find no documentation saying so.

Additionally since the weapons were advertised as permanent and "forever" they cannot then go back and state that they have the right to change something that is "permanent" which has a direct dictionary definition of "Lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely" which is what a layman would understand the word means and what the courts would consider.

Last thing is that the introduction of the customization closely followed by the removal of legacy weapon attachments is a very clear example of a company "enriching themselves through deception" as they sold you something, changed it and then charged you to get back what you already had. This being the case they could be up for massive fines or product injunctions if this was taken to criminal court (something else to look at)

Additionally he said we probably do not want to do a class action as it will actually be in EAsy's best interest as they will only need to fight one case in one district in each state/province/country filed.

So for all you out there we do have several resources, all depends on how far you want to take it. I personally do not know if i want to spend the time and effort for this as a BBB complaint takes 30 days and then a small claims case could take months to be heard but they have kinda ticked me off with this and the blue response in this thread reeks of arrogance.

[Soldier.A]

(05-01-2012 04:20 PM)Silvanoshi Wrote:  Threads merged.

Thank's for the abundant amount of feedback folks. I know you guys want more of a response on this issue, right now VitalBullet's initial post is it. That may change going forward, but for the time being that's where we're at.

Silvanoshi

Finally an answer...

But, are you guys gone change like it whas before? I don't realy like weapon costumization...

[Henvar]

(05-01-2012 04:52 PM)Soldier.A Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 04:20 PM)Silvanoshi Wrote:  Threads merged.

Thank's for the abundant amount of feedback folks. I know you guys want more of a response on this issue, right now VitalBullet's initial post is it. That may change going forward, but for the time being that's where we're at.

Silvanoshi

Finally an answer...

But, are you guys gone change like it whas before? I don't realy like weapon costumization...

Answer?
Where?

Its just a standard reply.

[Soldier.A]

Yes, I know but I mean the 1st answer of an admin on this topic .

[Bellamikov]

http://battlefield.play4free.com/en/foru...?tid=64028

here's my response to this!

[cHaOsOfWar]

EAsy you obviously have no clue what you have done. I played this game last night for the first time since the 20th update. You've nerfed the guns down to the point they are practically useless even with modest attachment rentals. I paid for an accurate weapon, now I have a piece of junk not worth playing with. For now, pistols and shotguns rule. Soon you plan to nerf them down too so play becomes balanced again.

This actually might have worked but you forgot one thing. A lesson from the past that you forgot and that will eventually bite you in the bottom line. You forgot the Script Kiddies that use hacks to your program. The simple fact is the bigger the advantage you give to the script kiddies the more script kiddies you are going to have in the game. Do the script kiddies pay you for BF's? Oops, the answer is no, they pay the hacker that hacked your program.

Up until now a script kiddie didn't have that much of an advantage over a paying player, now you have changed that whole dynamic and it is going to cost you dearly in the near future I am sure. This game is going to become as futile to play without a hack as BF2 was when it finally failed. I did not enjoy my playing time on this game last night and will probably soon leave as I eventually did BF2. If it is not fun to play, why play?

I know you want to make it more fun for the free to play players but nerfing down the weapons that your paying players paid you for (not some hack site) is NOT going to increase your bottom line in the long run but it will increase the hack site's bottom line. If you want to give most of the money people are willing to pay to play this game to some hack site I most certainly cannot stop you. But...

If you want to attract more free to play players give them more incentives and better weapons as they rank up. Give them weapons they can reasonably rent for credits. If you want to keep your paying players and create more paying players give them weapons that are effective against the script kiddies that ARE going to abuse your program. You are certainly free to ignore this advice, it is your game and your income.

Time will tell if I am right or your business plan. I wish you all the luck in the world but to tell you the truth I am near the end and enjoying this game less and less every day. cHaOs out

[[ST6]mFien]

(05-01-2012 04:22 PM)[DR]Sturm Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 03:56 PM)MoreFien Wrote:  As my last few steps are taken before ripping their bovine excrement ToSA to shreds in court, I have also filed complaints with the BBB and econsumer.gov

I suggest everyone do the same.

This is Fraud, False Advertisement, Theft and Breech of Contract to say the least.

You cant sell something as permanent have your people reassure the consumer that it IS permanent, then remove the item and replace it with something that people wouldnt pay 1 cent for.

Just a question. If you succeed will EAsy go down and or will people get some sort of compensation like a refund?

Well it depends, but chances are the game will be ruined, (because the cost of settling will outweight the gain made by continuing running the game) but EAsy themselves.... no.

As far as refunds and such, i recommend disputing the charges with your bank as "service never recieved"
Other than that yes the case would result in some sort of compensation, however it all depends on the course the lawyers decide to take, such as personal or class action suit, and then all ull have to do is opt-in and if thats the case i will be providing u the means of doing so. itll also depend on the judgement, they may decide to compensate funds or virtual currency or the items themselves but most likely funds, because thats the easiest and most common verdict in these cases, from what im told.

[Vod:Ka]

(05-01-2012 04:50 PM)Raijukin Wrote:  some important things I think some people might have missed during the merge...


http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/104/fueasy2.jpg

check the date he wrote it. thank you

[BlackPercy]

(05-01-2012 05:33 PM)Vodka123 Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 04:50 PM)Raijukin Wrote:  some important things I think some people might have missed during the merge...


http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/104/fueasy2.jpg

check the date he wrote it. thank you

I was just wondering where my post went in the "merge".
Edit;nvm found it, i really like how they try to bury _everything_ .

[Septuagint]

i took a picture of the former post just in case a 'merge' or a 'deletion' would have happened. I also filmed it while scrolling down. Got that covered.

[LazzDaMadafaka]

(05-01-2012 04:32 PM)[DR]Sturm Wrote:  "...
Take the EAsy route and just give us the weapons we´ve paid for.
We haven´t paid for stock+Legacy attachments. We´ve paid for non customizable weapons with specific stats, bullets per mag and mag count.
Just give us those back and that´s it. ..."

F A C K I N T R U E !!!!!!!

[BlackPercy]

(05-01-2012 05:57 PM)Septuagint Wrote:  i took a picture of the former post just in case a 'merge' or a 'deletion' would have happened. I also filmed it while scrolling down. Got that covered.

Im sure they put it here for easier deletion of evidence when the time is "right".

[Joakim[I]]

Cool, cool and cool. I am off this game now, sadly. In my opinion, EAsy have taken my weapons (money) that I bought.
A new montage was coming on my way and even some of my friends started to play this game, but it has all been canceled.
I remember when we all had fun, but battlefunds to have better weapons, but now, there is nothing left.

Bye Bye Battlefield Play4Free, lasts forever.

/Joakim

[BobLeBricolo]

it's a shame... come one...

[EWENEMENT]

noobs from easy destroyed this game, now you can suck my ballz kkthxbai

[LuckySPOOOOON]

I only hope that, as a company, they can have the maturity to realize that they made a bad business decision (hey, it happens) and just roll back to how it was, and hit the drawing board again for a take 2.

It surprises me that such a massive hit to their PR has been allowed to continue for so long without any progress being made at all.

I, for one, would be quite happy to get an "update" rolled out which was the game as on the 19th, and forget this whole mess ever happened.

Saying you care about player experience, and actually caring, are two separate actions. Just waiting on the second.

[Bombardement]

(05-01-2012 04:20 PM)Silvanoshi Wrote:  Threads merged.

Thank's for the abundant amount of feedback folks. I know you guys want more of a response on this issue, right now VitalBullet's initial post is it. That may change going forward, but for the time being that's where we're at.

Silvanoshi

I LOLed.
This is just an answer to calm us down. It has been made so that none of the guys who´re actually thinking about sueing EAsy will do it but instead wait for a detailed response.
Don´t let them fool you I say. They´ve had enough time to correct their mistakes.

[Ciorry]

Ea and Easy destryed this game... Actually I play A.V.A.

EA THIEFS!!!! BACK MY ELITE WEAPON!!!! I payed for this gun!!!

Panda de ladrones y estafadores de ea y easy, nos estais estafando, o mejor, ROBANDO, mucha gente pagó con dinero real sus armas y ahora vosotros se las quitais para "equilibrar" el juego... Y de paso poneis customizables las armas para hacer más daño y de paso sacar más dinero... y digo yo, puestos a equilibrar.. porque no eliminais los boosters??? ah no perdona... que esto es un NEGOCIO para vosotros... ESTAFADORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DEVOLVEDNOS NUESTRAS ARMAS O NUESTRO DINERO!!

[Tuga]

Quote:Hello EAsy!
I just wanted you to know that you've made an incredible job with this game, especially since 20th of December. Most of the players will agree with me. I haven't seen a negative comment since then.
Anyways, here are my tips to make this game even better, according to your new politics:

1) Boost Shotguns. We need our Shotguns BOOSTED!! They're not that powerful.

2) Aimbot, Wallhack, Invisibility. Make them legal. 2500 Battlefunds for 3 days Aimbot. Sounds great, huh?

3) Ask people what's their favorite weapon and nerf them! Or, make them cost DOUBLE!

4) More Jet TRAINING POINTS. Steer Right (1 training point), Steer left (1 training point). The jet's too easy to pilot as it is now.

5) Server Search. To be able to search servers you'll have to pay 100 battlefunds. To play, another 150 battlefunds.

6) Knife. 3 training points to be able to get knife. WTF?? Everyone has it. Too OP if you ask me.

7) Crouch, walk, run. 1 training point for each. Or 75'000 Credits.

8) Flag Capture. Being able to capture a flag (5 training points or 2500 battlefunds). Not everyone should be able to capture a flag. It's too UNBALANCED as it is.

9) See/Hear the enemy. To be able to see or hear the enemy you'll have to pay 2500 battlefunds or spend 5 training points.

10) Drive Vehicles. To be able to drive vehicles you'll have to spend 3 training points, or enter your REAL LIFE driving license code. Not fair if everyone can drive.



I'm looking forward to get a job at EAsy since my revolutionary ideas.

I also invite you guys to post your other tips for a better P4F xD

With sarcasm, Bellamikov!

Nicely done! I hope they're listening because they are obviously losing a lot of revenue.

I have a few more,

11 - Your screen will become black until you get 300 kills or pay 10000 BF (yes, you're supposed to get the kills and pay the BFs with a black screen...good luck!)

12 - If you wear prescription glasses or contact lenses and you're actually doing well you now must take them off to level the playing field or pay 500 BF per hour of play

13 - For 3000 BFs or 10000000000 credits the developers themselves will pay you a visit at home and tenderly massage your...........................wallet so the money slips out more Easily

14 - If you get to the top of the scoreboard you must pay a penalty of 1000 BF

15 - To win a game without actually bothering to move your mouse or clicking just open the in-game store and enter the auction for the win. Remember to bid more and bid often. Try to get your whole team involved to improve your chances of success. There is a reserve price of 5000000000 BF. Don't worry, it's not real money and it lasts forever.

16 - After reassessing the situation Easy voids all paid for wins as they were unfair. The new price to buy your wins back is 700000000000000000000000000000000000000 BF each. Don't worry, it's not real money and it lasts forever.

17 - Just to simplify things Easy now offers direct deposit. Just deposit your pay cheque directly into Easy's account.

18 - Easy really, really, really would like you to consider selling your blood, semen and other bodily fluids and give them the money.

19 - Have you considered selling some of your organs yet? A kidney will get you 25 BF, a lung will get you 30 BF.

20 - What do you mean that you ran out of organs to sell? How about you make Easy the beneficiary of your life insurance?

Ridiculous? Farfetched? Remember what happened the last time you underestimated Easy's capacity for screwing you? Yep!